Board Thread:The Seven Seas Court/@comment-4093783-20170819221346/@comment-3443450-20170821211747

LawIronhawk wrote: If you're tired of the political side, why are you responding to an argument with a giant essay displaying an insane agenda of your own (of course this probably makes me a hypocrite, RIP, please prepare for a giant essay)?

It may have been a tirade but in no way was it political. I put forth my own opinion, not agenda, because I never said anything along the lines of "All I want to do is make this a safe and family-friendly environment for people of all ages to enjoy". Which is an agenda, unlike my opinion of "I'm saying if we all actually contributed to pages, held events everyone could join in that we all actually want to do, and just do anything at all that made us look like we're someplace people would want to get to know more about, then people might stay." I never said we had to do anything but you can take my if as an agenda if you'd like. Unless you're referring to this "So you can keep popping in for a few minutes and pretending you know everything about this place, you can continue spreading an agenda with absolutely no focus behind it, you can actually focus on making good content and having some fun with friends, or you can leave" being my agenda, in which case absolutely I have an insane agenda to carry out.

(P.S. you can't be a hypocrite for that)

LawIronhawk wrote: "And we can all do better than what the current TLOPO community can give." This type of behaviour is simply disgusting. If you think of any one person or community as not good enough for us, then I simply don't know how any of the problems can be fixed. It simply perturbs me that this type of mentality could even surface.

Yes, I definitely think the multiple groups of people who abandoned us/want nothing to with us are not up to standards for who we should be reaching out to. Forgive me for being so high and superior but we have no goodwill with most of the TLOPO community, except for the few fragments of people who have no idea about anything besides the game (I.E. the forums, Factual Wiki, Wikis in general). They're the only group I'm even calling not good enough for us, at least the only one besides our list of banned users. It's very simple, we fix whatever problems there are. Forgive me for bringing up said mentality, but it's not worth the time to try and find the few among the masses of that specific community who would want to come on here and make the content.

LawIronhawk wrote: And news flash, what we need to do is inform people about the wiki. We need to spread the word about it. Having a Wiki Oscars won't bring new people in, as was evident by the previous one. The new generation of players needs to be made aware of us.

Yes, spreading the word into different communities on different games is very important. Sorry for not bringing it up, but my last tirade was mostly about pointing out how our "unfamily unfriendliness" (patent pending), isn't what our problem is. You're also right that the Wiki Oscars isn't something that will bring people in, that's the main reason I never brought up something like that, mostly cause I see both the Oscars and User Awards as abhorrent narcissistic events. "Held events everyone could join in that we all actually want to do", mostly means events in games where we can play with just each other, or even meet other people we could advertise to. The new generation of players definitely need to be found, which is exactly why we shouldn't be looking to TLOPO as they're not that new generation.

LawIronhawk wrote: Also, saying that everything is a potential userbase makes absolutely no sense. The wiki is centered around specific groups of people, POTCO having been its main theme. This is obviously supported by the max exodus following POTCO's closing. News flash, plenty of those people are in Discord. We can easily reach out to them and invite them back into the fold.

Really wanted to break this into two things cause they make absolutely no sense together, but anywho. "Every userbase is a potential userbase for us" was meant, in the context it was in at least, to give the fact that we don't have to focus on TLOPO's userbase, we have a lot of games we could go choose from. But y'know it still makes sense anyway cause "potentially" everything is possible.

Fast Points Bonus Round:
 * 1) The wiki is centered around one group, broken into twoish sub-groups as of now.
 * 2) No one has ever disagreed POTCO was our beginning theme or our biggest source of content.
 * 3) Supporting point is mostly subjective, there were many contributing factors as to why the community dwindled down to our few numbers.
 * 4) News flash, plenty of those people hated us to begin with, or hated us after the fact, or hate what we are still. Sure we can reach out to them, but most of them have never cared whether they were in our fold or not.

LawIronhawk wrote: "But I want to do more, I want to help make these events, make my own pages, maybe collaborate on others." You haven't made any edits to the wiki in days, why are you even trying to go down this road.

"I'm not saying I'm perfect or doing anything like that, I know for a fact all I ever do around here when I have the chance to edit is fix age old problems that have haunted us since forever, not actually create content. But I want to do more, I want to help make these events, make my own pages, maybe collaborate on others. I'm not making any promises that I will do this stuff, but I will make the promise that I'll try. Cause I just found the drive I've been looking for to get those things going." Thanks for giving me the chance to put my words back into context, where I clearly state I know I haven't created content in what feels like forever, and where I explain I want to go down this road because I just (today, as in because of the responses on this forum) found my drive to do so.

LawIronhawk wrote: I will reiterate that the main problem that the wiki needs fixed is exposure. We need to be a safe and fun environment for everyone to enjoy. Swearing will just hurt us even more.

Those are actually two very different things. See you started off by saying your big point is that we need exposure (which is actually a very legitimate point I agree with, just not before we do other things), and then you go back to driving the same old agenda you haven't stopped using "We need to be a safe and fun environment for everyone to enjoy". Exposure and your opinion of our "unfamily unfriendliness" (patented) are two very different beasts, and the problem you have talked about up until this point has always been about making this place more family friendly. But to reiterate, swearing has not shown any hurt in the past. If anything it's always been our very odd rules on swearing that have hurt us.

LawIronhawk wrote: Also, I'm surprised you didn't even consider responding to my alternative of having a Wiki Discord that allows swearing. Something tells me you'd rather argue with me to further your own agenda than actually help everyone come to a solution that everyone can agree on.

I probably didn't bring up your agenda cause I barely focused on what you had to say, and chose to focus on what I had to say (at least in that first post). I mean you can definitely tell about one third of the way through I just gave up talking about what you had said. So here comes the reply to your alternative:

Why is a Wiki Discord that allows swearing better than a chat that allows swearing? I will give you the fact that we could follow "Gamers Bastion"'s example and have a NSFW room (better than what it was tbh), but there's the problem of that's pointless and most of us would probably just want to curse in General (as every single other Discord in the RP community does (unless I'm mistaken cause I haven't been on any of those in about a month)). So then there's the problem that if we're gonna keep this hush hush and not even put it up on Recent Activity (as PORBrit has done), then we're basically dealing with a MOKAD copycat. If we do put it up on Recent Activity then why don't we just put a NSFW warning in the Chat Title or in Chat when you enter? What's the point in having to use Discord when you're already on Wikia (basically like how you have to play Feed The Beast through the Twitch App now instead of the old FTB launcher)?

Now of course I can keep arguing with you about "my own agenda", but that in no way means I'm halting people from coming to a solution. With my first post I put my opinion out into the wild (like everyone should be doing to come to a better solution for everyone (like you did with your first post)) I may have focused on your opinion to begin with but if anything it was to bring about my own. This second post is just me pointing out the flaws in what you're saying now while trying to paint me as the bad guy (As in I'm merely defending myself). The only one who might be very mildly stifling the development of a community solution is the one who's trying to drag me through the mud instead of focusing on what I have to say.